Poker Log Entry for EightFive

Oh, sorry...IMO=in my opinion...i spend too much time on the poker forums lol

So I am going to add just a bit more
 
If all these things were going on in your head I again give u huge credit for making a big lay down and i am of the belief That most times I would rather make a bad lay down than a bad call, with that being said, I think that especially in low limit MTT's that you may be giving the other players way to much credit especially because you truly are in the top 5% of these fields with your thinking and abilities.
 
The whole limping pre did not allow you to play your hand the correct way and made you play scared
 
My point is that I think you may give too much credit to some of these other players because of the way you are able to analyze hands ect.....
 
I truly don't believe that most players think this way
 
Also pardon my ignorance but can u tell me waht IMO is
thanks

Yes.. your initial mistake of limping pre fucked the whole hand and decision making up :)
 
The main thing you should get out of this, which you have, is to recognize your mistakes and learn from them.
 
Something else you should be doing is mentally catagorizing player styles in all situations.  Kind of like a player A will do XYZ in situation F.

Oh and for what its worth...when the SB limps pre, leads on the flop and then calls a reraise...a board with Th9h on it isn't a exactly a dream flop...he has a TON of hands that allow me to be in bad shape on the turn....this is another reason I think my raise on the flop was a little too small.
 
Moral of the story: Don't limp with big pairs in low stakes MTTs...they want to give there money away you don't have to get that tricky.

I agree I should have shoved the turn.  However, I rarely EVER see low limit players 3-barrel...almost never.  Also, my read is a draw or top or second pair when he is willing to call my raise on the flop.  Then he still leads into me on the turn.  I should have shoved but alas I did not.  When the river comes and he shoves for only a little more than the pot, it is very hard to find a hand that I have beat.  Can you think of one? He has to be bluffing or moving in with a big hand here, and like I said earlier in these comments I did not believe he had the ability to lead on the flop with a medium strength hand, realize I had a better at some point, and then shove turning a hand that has potential show down value into a complete bluff.  Obviously I was wrong about that, but if that is where I stand in the moment I don't know how I can call.
 
IMO, my limp pre is terrible (especially at a table that was not super aggressive, just kinda loose...big difference), my reraise on the flop is a little small, my flat call on the turn is horrible, but my fold on the end (given the situation) was the most reasonable play.

Wow,
I am really suprised you folded this hand. you got a dream flop of rags and a guy willing to put his chips in the pot. I really think if this guy had any kinda of decent paint paint hand he would have raised pre even if it was a min raise with one limper, Like Jesse he says he probably puts you on A rag or somehting and thinks he can shove, the only wy for him to win is with a shove on the river otherwise he knows he's beat......
 
Good lay down if you really thought you were beat (very disciplined) however I think you should have shoved the turn. just my thoughts

I think the QQ hand was a little different and that it was def. a terrible call on the turn on my part.  But I do agree I am probably making mistakes on the turn (and they are probably from playing weak).  I will start paying more attention to this for sure. 
 
I think in this hand I should/could have reraised again on the turn because, like you said, what does he have that he is leading again at the turn in that spot? Most likely something pretty weak. 
 
The reason I folded was because, in my mind, his hand has to either be a monster or a bluff and, without a lot of info on this player, I didn't see it being a bluff often enough to call.  I also didn't assume that he was capable of turning what he thought may have been the best hand into a bluff after it became obv. it wasn't anymore.
 
Thanks for the great advice and I will certainly keep all of it in mind.

I disagree with the fold in these situations.
 
My reasons are these:
 
You limped.. he thinks you are weak
He is in the BB with 2 randoms
He led out 3 times!
 
Who the hell leads out 3 times into an opponent with a "weak" hand for value when most of the time the player with position will fire?
 
Most of the time blind defends with a strong hand/draw throw in a check raise at some point.
 
They either try and check raise you off the pot on the flop immediatly thinking their pair is good and that you have Ax etc.
 
Or, they lead out with a draw or a pair, if they hit on the turn they check to entice you to bet and commit your stack when they raise.
 
I think you give this guy too much credit, I like how you think like a survivalist, like myself, but this guy was desperate to take the pot.
 
Iäve been in these situations often and am suprised to see the kind of shit they roll over trying to blow you off the hand.  Recently I did the same thing you did with AA pre and limped and had the BB fire 3 times with T5 off and at a board of JJ3.
 
Just my thoughts.. but pay close attention to BB players who lead out and what they hold.
 
*on another note.. I´m seeing a tendancy in your decisons and play that make be considered a weakness/leak/needs cleaning up.  This is your turn play versus aggressive players when you have a strong hand that is vunerable.  You call the turn and then fold on the river when they put more pressure on you, like the other example when you had QQ I think out of positition when you check raised flop with board of JJx and he 3-bet, then you check folded the turn. 
 
I dont know the solution to this as I dont know exactly what you think or how you play but you may want to put some thought into this. It seems at this point in the hand you seem to get "lost" as to what the hell your opponents holds or is doing.
 
I hope this helps.

That's one thing I find that happens a lot more at the lower levels that actually is kind of tough to combat: people make bets not knowing themselves if they are bluffing or value-betting.  I can't believe how many times I see spots, especially on the river, where someone will make a bet that just has to be a bluff or a monster and ends up being a super thin value bet (whether they realized it or not).
 
I wouldn't go as far as to say that it would be easier to play against better players because the dead money that fills the lower stakes tournament has often been the reason I find myself with a big stack, but they sure leave you scratching your head sometimes.
 
Anyways, thanks for the comments.

9 7, crazy play, still a good lay down assuming the guy knows what he's doing.  gets you thinking though cause there has been a few times, and with me lately i've picked off people bluffing all their chips on the river, and I'm calling with middle pair and winning.  I only do this when I feel like I have played the hand like a complete newbie so it's actually more off a set up when I sense my opponent is thinking i'm super tight.  I will add that i'm making this play in the low limit tourney, cash game
to sum it up GOOD LAY DOWN! i also didn't see the flush draw on the flop so I would have probably thought he didn't get there but the straight possibility on the turn makes it harder to call the river all in!

No, I folded.  I couldn't find a hand that I had beat.  COuldn't imagine he ships with a 9, T, or J...just didn't make any sense.  So I fold and he shows me 97.  I have no idea how he makes that move...I don't even know if HE realized he was bluffing or not lol.  Anyways, I think when I run into that line I am beat a huge percentage of the time though, and without a specific read on how this guy plays a fold def. seemed right.

by the way, did you bust on this hand?

what's the guy trying to show he has KQ?...maybe hit the set on the flop and waiting for you to commit? I don't think he had the set the way he just flat calls on the flop, as if he's chasing, then that jack pops off and leads out, IMO i'm folding aces there but like you said, you asked for it, lol.